Hi and thanks for the question.

I don' t have any experience using either Alice or Scratch. After I read your email I went to the websites of each and spent some time getting familiar with them. Of those two products I prefer Alice. The work you do with alice and the language that is constructed seems to be much more related to a real programming language and situation.

Your original question asked what a good way to start doing some programming of basic casual games. That's a little harder to answer, actually. I think it depends on a few factors.

1. What do you mean by "casual game".

For example, are would the end result of an Alice project be considered a game? Certainly it is an interactive program, and I'm sure it could be a game. But my initial thought would be that Alice (and scratch) were good tools for giving a beginner a interesting introduction to computer animation first, then programming second, the somewhere down the line, games.

Which leads to the next question:

2. What level is the student?

Again, Alice and Scrach look like great tools for a beginning student. However, if the students are already learning actual code or programming, or want to learn an actual language, then I might suggest something else. For example, let's say you have students who have a pretty good understanding of programming concepts, have perhaps even written some programs, and now want to go deeper into programming and learn how games are programmed. Then, without a doubt, I would suggest Microsoft XNA which uses C#. C# is an easy language to learn, has gained wide industry acceptance, and is just right for creating casual games.

Flash is using ActionScript is also another possibility. The great thing about Flash is that it provides a much easier platform for doing the graphics and animation, which allows students to focus on learning the coding aspects. ActionScript is almost exactly like C, so they are really learning a language they could apply to the real-world later on.

However, Flash is EXPENSIVE and certainly beyond the reach of t he average student should they want to pursue work outside of class. Also, Flash is, first and foremost, a multimedia animation program, which means you have to get past the Flash terminology before you can start working on the programming. I recommend Flash Game Programming for Dummies as a primer.

Finally, if you are looking for a way to create game without really worrying about the programming aspect, then I would suggest Gamemaker (http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker) which is a tool for creating 2D games using a drag and drop interface and less dependant on coding.

3. Inherent the discussion number 2 above is what is your end goal?

Again, if the end goal is to spike interest in students completely unfamiliar with comptuers and programming, use Alice.

If the goal is to teach a real programming language and game programming, use XNA.

If the gaol is to learn the fundamentals of 2D game design without a lot of coding, use Gamemaker.

I hope this helps. Check back soon. Robert

Here is a little more detail about the Microsoft program:

XNA is a game development framework. It requires that  you actually program in C#. All of the tools are available for free. This particular solution means that the student would actually be using Visual Studio to write C# code. This implies that you want to actaully teach someone to program using actual code rather than the other environements that have graphical interfaces.

The link to begin exploring XNA is found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/default.aspx.

The link for Visual C# Express is http://www.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/.

Let me know what you decide or if you have addtional questions.

Robert

@Trey: I'd love to participate in the XNA User's Group. I'll check out the website, but if you can put me on your mailing list as well  (rmadsen@mumbojumbo.com).

At this time I have only "tinkered" with XNA, but I'm very familiar with C#. At our studio we currently use C++ mostly and Visual Studio 2005 for development. Our current graphics techology base is DirectX 8.

Robert

Great! I hope to be there. Robert

@Trey. I checked out your game and left some comments, but I cant' tell if they all got posted or not. Great first effort! Keep working at it to turn it into a completely polished game. Here were some of my suggestions:

- Interaction with the enemy robots (e.g. bouncing off each other instead of just passing through)

- Clearer indication of how many lives I have

- If I clear a room, leave, and immediately return, it shouldn't be filled to the brim with enemies again.

- Better transitions from one room to the next.

- Roaming super-enemies that follow me from room to room (perhaps as difficulty increases)

- Expand to more complex levels.

Awesome.

Robert

Go XNA!

@rmadsen

Thanks for the tip on particle system implmentation.

Don